Ravelry VS. The Alleged Enemy

So, you’ve all obviously seen the posts I’ve written about this whole Ravelry issue, you know my stance. But, have you seen the madness that Ravelry’s decision has caused? Have you seen the nearly 1000 posts on my facebook about it? People were fit to be tied. And they were angry, angry on both sides. Oh, and I watched the fights play out, I watched people site one source over another about why the situation was made by Ravelry to ultimately piss people off….and I only really jumped in when I thought that someone had crossed the line. (That line is non-negotiable: you do not attack my supporters, my readers, nor do you ever EVER take the argument to a personal level, where you’ve searched their profile and found that they were “Fill in nasty blanked word here.”

But, I felt the conversation was interesting. Sooooo many people jumped in, soooo many people wanted to say something, anything about how heartbroken they were, or how elated they were with Ravelry’s decision. And that my friends is exactly what Ravelry didn’t want. A discussion. That was apparent to me from their opening statement.

Many of you that have followed this blog for a long time (10 years now!) know that my principle desire has been to always search for the optimism. And even in the darkest part of this, people refuse to find the pessimism in it. And I think that is amazing.

Open dialogue does not begin with a statement. It begins with the one most important question you want to ask of your alleged enemy. If Ravelry had asked the question, rather than made a bold statement, we may not be here right now… involved in further discussion. We, outside of their constant watchful eye, are talking to each other. And that is not at all what they wanted. I stand by my claim they purposefully did this to keep us at each other’s swords and shields.

I was going to watch “Best of Enemies” today because I haven’t seen it. Phillip is at work, and probably wouldn’t want to watch it because superheroes aren’t blowing things up. (Ladies? Am I right? The man turns into a boy when you put a bowl of popcorn in his lap, the remote in his hand, and he giggles with glee at seeing things blown to smithereens. I love him for it. Keeps him off the streets).

But, I wanted to see “Best of Enemies” today because the Ravelry debacle calls to mind the theme of this movie. How do enemies (alleged) become friends? And if those two can figure it out, why haven’t we?

Its quite possible we’re told to be enemies…but are never really given the REAL reason why.

So I’ll ask the it, would love to hear what you have to say.

“What is the first question you would ask of your (alleged) enemy?”

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33 comments

  1. I think you are correct. Ravelry was attempting to stop the conversation. They do this by insulting those with an opposing view and making rules limiting their expression. The motavating factor is always fear. They fear any attempt to undermine their world view, because they lack confidence that it actually exists. And one must remember…protecting free speech is most important for unpopular opinion. Only then, can these ideas have the glare of light on it and it can be discussed in a public forum.

  2. My Question: Why don’t you obey your Mother, when she says . . . “If you don’t have anything nice to say; Don’t say anything at all!”
    P.S. Do you kiss your Mother with that MOUTH?
    Either question works for me. I’m a peace keeper at heart and I loathe arguments!
    Matthew 5:9
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
    I guess I’m just a child after all!!
    (Brand new subscriber btw)

  3. My question? What can I tell/show you to convince you that not everyone on my side is [fill in blank with insult of your choice]?

  4. A good question, but I would say that while I may disagree with folk but they are not my enemy! Hate is such a nasty thing, to have thrown at you or to throw it yourself. I like your view of optimism and dialog, I not sure when it became the norm to judge and criticize other people with no though to context or even if you should! Thank you for summing up the whole mess, and I think I would ask ‘if they are okay and would they like to sit and talk about it?’

  5. Well, as you know, theoretically I am, politically speaking your enemy ( only politically mind you). We’ve been down this road before, agreeing to disagree and agreeing that reaching across the border of political differences is important. When it comes to Ravelry I have been relieved as a gut reaction because I was dealing with some traumatized people in the background. That said I’m seeing from a different perspective. But I can see where open forums to all politics are preferable and good, but there is a background situation here that is not really known. I’ll give you the inside scoop, but do me a favor and don’t name my FB group? We’ve gone secret and I want to stay that way. We have the person who was harassed by let’s say extreme Conservatives (making a distinction, NOT all conservatives are like this) in Ravelry and her situation was the catalyst for the ban. She anonymously complained about a Trump hat and the designer passed her info, Instagram, home address, etc. to her followers who harassed her. Really badly. Now, I’m making some assumptions here, probably Ravelry has gone through this with many. They could of dealt directly with the designer, I’m assuming here that they had had it. And you know as a fellow Admin. of a group it’s easy to get overwhelmed. I’m getting frustrated personally because I’d like to see opposite political sides come together and be able to talk too. We need healing in this country. But the viciousness that is used to attack others is so beyond evil. And I’m sure, in pockets it can be found in both sides. But right now I’m dealing with a traumatized Indigenous -black young mother of 6 children who is still going through hell. We have #Iamhere on it, an International group that posts positive media to counteract negative. So as I go off to vacation in mountains beyond the internet, I hope they can help spread some truth around. You know how it hurts to be personally attacked, I was there defending you. You know how it feels. Maybe Ravelry’s decision didn’t help the situation between liberals and conservatives but right now I have my hands full trying to help someone that was verbally mauled and lied about. YouTube videos made to tear her apart. Her Instagram pulled because people lied about her, said she was racist. You know very well how this feels. The internet is cruel. And this is so sad. The divide has become bigger. So sorry. Peace. ❤

    1. I’m not buying it. The “traumatized “ person started it by reporting a pattern as offensive as some sort of hateful political statement. Because she disagreed with the sentiment she attacked a designers income and reputation. The correct response from the designer would have been a civil suit. Not excusing any doxxing but she has no right to play the victim here.

      1. Kathy she was personally attacked by hundreds on Instagram. Her private address given out and she’s a mother of six and you think she deserves that? This is where the disconnect is. She voiced an opinion that wasn’t going to destroy the designer or hurt her. A total lack of compassion and caring and I sense just over boiling hatred. It’s shocking what this country has come to. A personal opinion should be able to be expressed without someone else reacting in anger. Justifying hateful attacks is really low.

      2. I am not buying it either. It’s like elementary school on the play ground “you started it.”

    2. I’m curious about how the designer found out who the anonymous complainer was. Did Ravelry tell her? I remember reading about someone trying to get a law passed to make doxxing illegal, but I don’t recall if it was successful (or if it’s a state by state thing.) Are the civil authorities of whatever country the complainer (complainant?) is in involved?

      1. Sue, the person anonymously reported but unfortunately her info. was able to be seen by the designer. So a glitch in the system. An unfortunate mistake. We are recommending an FBI inquiry, I’m uncertain if that will happen.

    3. Casey followed a conservative group that he kicked off of the site to a new forum they started and harassed them. He wasn’t even on Ravelry, he just followed them and harassed them. He’s been kicking conservatives off of that site since 2009. Do some research. The hate came from him. And this story about the conservative that plagued this poor liberal is garbage, no one can verify any of that story.

    4. No evidence of any doxing was ever provided. I think this story is fake, anther incident of victim culture promoting a fake attack to justify hate against another group. How did an “anonymous” complaint lead to doxing? Where is the screenshot of the alleged doxing? I haven’t seen any evidence to support the claims being made. They lack credibility.

  6. I would as “Why?” What brought this on? Was it a specific person or incident?
    Honestly I have so many questions I don’t know where to start.

  7. I have been reminding my friends (who are pro-Trump and call Democrats names – such as stupid) that they have called me, as well as other mutual friends who are Democrats, stupid. I believe it makes them stop and think.. an opposing political viewpoint does not make that person an enemy. When I was asked by a non-knitting friend what I thought about what happened on Ravelry, my reply was they should have banned all political talk on Ravelry.

  8. My question would be “Why do you think/feel as you do? Can you explain it to me calmly and without going off the rails?”
    As far as the Ravelry situation, I am so very sorry for the person who was attacked. Hopefully the guilty parties can be held accountable and the person can be made whole to the extent that is possible.
    However, on the other side of the fence, I was in Kate Davies Ravelry group earlier this year when she was attacked and basically hounded off the internet by far left liberals. Some of the things that were said to and about her were absolutely shocking in their ugliness. If you weren’t aware of it and are on Ravelry, it played out in the general discussion thread of her group, beginning around mid-February and going on for a month or so.
    So it’s both sides of the fence, whether Ravelry wants to admit that or not. I think extremism of any stripe is the problem. And I think their decision is going to make that worse and not better.
    As an aside, I vote Libertarian. I am not a Trump supporter and never have been. I didn’t like him even when he was wrecking Atlantic City with his casinos, before he ever thought of running for president. I’ve never made a pro-Trump statement on Ravelry, and I cannot forsee a circumstance where I would. So this decision of theirs doesn’t actually affect me personally at all. But I’m leaving Ravelry just the same. Not interested in being in their particular echo chamber.

    1. Speaking of Kate Davies… What I found quite odd is she tweeted her giant approval of Ravelry’s policy change. I know Ravelry didn’t cause the attack om her earlier this year. But I also never saw them defend her either. I’m guessing she is very left leaning and detests Trump. Fine. Except all I could think was, in essence she is applauding the same group of people that Ravelry is protecting, the same group of people who so ruthlessly attacked her that she had to leave Instagram. Quite bizzare.

  9. I would ask, “Why do you not give me the courtesy of allowing me to have my own opinion?” I may not agree with my enemy’s ideology, but I allow them to have it without demanding they change it to reflect mine. We’ve lost that ability. And it’s not about “agreeing to disagree”, it’s about giving respect to your enemy, in spite of disagreeing.

    1. I agree, but my question would be, Please explain to me with facts not feelings why you believe in your opinion?

  10. I deleted my account. I’ve never interacted there, only searched for patterns to be inspired I hope they lost lots of members, but they would never tell if they did.

  11. Besides the obvious question of why in God’s name do they think President Trump is a white supremacist, I would ask them just why they think their hate for him (and anyone who supports him) is an acceptable kind of hate. What kind of hate is good hate? I deleted my account too. I don’t knit in order to convince anyone I’m a good person.
    I won’t participate in a community that thinks people who aren’t rabid liberals are evil. LOL, let them waddle in their own hate. I waddle in compassion, love and giving. I would ask, who do you all want to hurt by this? And most importantly, why.

  12. I’m a Republican and have found since the last election that about half (go figure that) are Democrats. Any time politics came up they’d say, “we can’t talk about that” I’d say, “let’s go have lunch.” I’d always ask what are the issues for you? In talking over lunch, I found we disagree on a few things, we agree on alot of things, just not always how to fix them. I don’t think my enemy is the other side, though there are a few extremists on both sides. I think my enemy is a buearacy that has taken on a life of it’s own and is doing everything it can to prevent us from coming to the table and finding solutions so that the buearacy can continue. For me that buearacy’s name is Washington DC.

  13. Crap on toast, I met your page because of the Ravalry debacle and now I keep reading your interesting blogs when I keep neglecting my own even more. My question would be, “Why?” I know, so very broad and open, but it would give me so much information…unless their answer was, “Because.” I half-assed read an article about the potential of another civil war over the way things are going in our country and I guess this is kind of like that in the fiber arts community. People I have known for years have decided I’m horrible things, when I’m fact I’m far from it. A piece of yarn has been sloppily laid in the sand, some choosing to bury their heads near it, others firmly entrenched on one side of the other, some balancing on top, while others try to bring both sides together to Magic Loop the chaos into a sock we can all fit in. Reading people’s thoughts, opinions, and replies has been fascinating. Educational. Sad. I’d like to know why. Smiling & Waving, Sharon

  14. I agree with this whole heartedly and just haveny had the words to mince together to express it. I am liberal, I am a white female, I am straight, I couldnt be more different than you.. but I care about none of those things. I literally care whether you and yours are doung alright, about whats on your sticks, and about learning something new from you. Were it me, I would have banned ALL political talk from the site. Because we are so much more than what party line we affiliate ourselves with. We are better than dividing lines in the dirt. We are better than exclusion of anyone.. especially those whom we could be having heartfelt and mind opening conversations with. I dont jate Trump’s supporters, and I am often driven to discover their motivations for their support of him.. and I often find it has nothing to do with race or the support of anything racist. Often it is about economics and the things he promises he will do. These are the same reasons we liverals liked Obama as much as we did. Because of what he said, what he promised, etc.

    As soon as I saw the Ravelry post I even felt excluded, because I didnt see thinhs their way.. because I didnt think it was right what they did.. and I didnt want to say anything publicly because I knew my opinion would not be that of the majority. As a kid who grew up being a little punk rocker because I didnt fit in elsewhere, I felt like, “Wow.. one more place I dont feel like I fit in.” I, a liberal, felt excluded because I simply think that in order to buikd inclusion for all.. means to include all.. but to just excluded discussing that which divides us, so we can focus on how to bring us together.

    I totally support your decison.. and I feel the same.. and personally I just wish you happiness and lots of happy moments doing this craft that we love.

  15. I am really not sure what they are talking about. Somebody reported somebody and then followed them to instagram. If they were fighting, why not just close the forum? Geesh. The only thing I am getting out of this is that the owner of Ravelry does not like Republicans. He really is not sure what and who they are; and he is not in knitting.

  16. I’ve lost friends – people I thought were good friends and whom I still think of as essentially good people – over this. The loss has been quiet. I know where my opinion stands in the public forum so I keep it to myself except when I’m with those I trust most to have honest discussion and not lump me in with the half of the country they’ve suddenly decided are too evil to have rights. But I’ve even lost some of those people, because things flare up and people start hating so hard that they don’t realize who they’re stomping on. My best friend posted something blasting business owners, conservatives, Christians, and white people as categorically evil in varying degrees, and deserving of gruesome death at the hands of mob justice. Being all of these things, I was devastated as I quietly unfollowed and stopped answering her messages.

    So what question would I ask my alleged enemy? I, like many others, would ask why. Why do you think *I* am your enemy when you’ve known me to be a rational person who tries to be kind? Or when you don’t know me at all, why are you assuming I’m your enemy? Why allow party rhetoric to blind you to the actual, real-life people you’re hating? Why, when you claim to be so desperate for equality and kindness and tolerance, have you bought into the violence and hatred and dehumanization of people like me? Why can’t you believe that I can both think our borders should be protected *and* want to see the state of the detention centers changed? Why can’t you believe that I, like you, am complex in my experiences and reasoning; or that I, apparently unlike you, am willing to listen to different perspectives and search for gaps in my understanding?

    And, perhaps more importantly, what would it take for you to finally be less angry, less hateful, and willing once again to be friends even with those who may not replicate your exact opinion?

  17. Casey Forbes doesn’t want people to talk and work out their differences. Cultural Marxism requires breaking down society so that a new society can rise up from the ashes. It’s not about helping Democrats beat the Republicans in the next election, even though one might easily mistake that as being the case. It’s really about supporting Anarchy and Communism.

    The question you need to ask your enemy is this… Do you support democracy? Because if you do, we need to talk. Our differences don’t matter, because we need to support the democratic process. That’s what is at stake here.

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